Forums for the Grievance Family

Hey guys,

I just wanted to make a post where everyone can see the discussions we've had about what our Raid is now and what many of the guilds leadership feels it should become.

Due to time constraints, real life events, and for many total burnout of content, the raids morale as a whole has been very low to say the least. Many of the raiders who have been in the raid since it's inception (nearly if not a whole year ago) are in the best possible gear Heroic HFC can offer them. The only way many of us could possibly progress would be by running only Mythic Raids, which the general consensus for that is we probably won't be running Mythics because then we begin to exclude other raiders because to do the Mythic content you really need to cherry pick and be playing to the best of your ability. It is also my own personal opinion that doing Mythics at this time isn't even worth it for the achievements, as we'd be earning the kills and boss loot after having a 10 ilvl advantage over the players who earned it during it's earlier period of time before the reintroduction of Valor which is a significant difference in raw hps, dps, and overall survive-ability which to me feels like we'd have cheated to earn the same achievements of those who earned them before us (for the record, my feelings are similar with regards to our Heroic kills).Many might feel otherwise but I figured posting my view would at least let you understand why I personally have no desire fore the Mythic content.

ALL THAT SAID

We would like to propose a much more lenient and, at least I feel, fun alternative to our current model. I do think that our minimum ilvl, food, flask requirements would all stay the same but we have discussed and agree that a dramatic shift in raid structure would help boost the enjoyment we all get from the game while we wait ever so impatiently for Legion to come out in August.

The idea would be that our new "normal" night would consist of us effectively starting over again with alts. All new tanks, all new healers, and all new dps/shifting from melee to ranged and ranged to melee etc. Obviously, this might not appeal to everyone and I certainly don't make the decisions for the guild alone but my overall feeling from our raid is that we are bored of what we do now (farm Heroic) but don't have the solid team for 20 man Mythics AND as a general Grievance ideology we don't want to exclude players if we don't have to which Mythic Raiding is inherently designed to.

By forcing role changes and perspective shifts it would force people to re-learn a fight all over again from another angle which imo would result in everybody improving in their raid awareness and overall capability.

I know not a ton of people read or post on the forums but I'm posting this in the raid portion in hopes that we at least get some discussion going, maybe even from players not playing.

Thanks for reading!

Thank you so much for putting what has been on my mind for a while out into actual words that makes sense.

I am ALL FOR this idea. Might as well breath new life into the content while we can. And I am also assuming that those that do want to continue using their mains are able to do so.

Dont worry. I would switch to a different role as I should. DPS or Healer. Hmmmmm, so many options.

Trocien wrote:Thank you so much for putting what has been on my mind for a while out into actual words that makes sense.

I am ALL FOR this idea. Might as well breath new life into the content while we can. And I am also assuming that those that do want to continue using their mains are able to do so.

Dont worry. I would switch to a different role as I should. DPS or Healer. Hmmmmm, so many options.

Yeah you wouldnt have to switch if you can't or don't actually want to but it's highly encouraged. If you did stay on your main it'd be highly encouraged to play a totally different spec, like a sub optimal one even. Fire mage comes to mind (sorry mage you know it's true). It's just an idea that I feel would help spice things up immensely for the majority of the long time raiders. We have a few new recruits that don't yet have all the gear and I'm not insisting that those players switch characters.

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I know I have not been on in a week due to my family.. but after last night and chatting with the officers and the spec this seems to be the route to go..

I'm hoping to get it all figured out by Tuesday. .. but this weekend seems to be the beta for legion.. so let's hope lots get in.

I know I'm having troubles finding time to commit two hours of anything currently. This baby got super mobile and I won't be free on Tuesdays for 6 weeks. I'll try to pop on as I can, but it's been tricky lately.

No worries Raille. Nice post Dhax. At this stage of the expansion, we are keen to ensure we keep folks interested by making things fun and interesting. Alt runs are a great way to do that. Many of us have alts with really good gear. And those who are new and still wanting to gear up mains, can do so. And, Trocien will keep us rolling with fun events too. Enjoy hanging out with one another and the relaxed atmosphere. Once Legion comes out, we will go back to being more disciplined to down new content. I think this post shows how everyone wants to be sure we still have a good time. It means folks care and that's what makes us family.

By forcing role changes and perspective shifts it would force people to re-learn a fight all over again from another angle which imo would result in everybody improving in their raid awareness and overall capability.

It's pretty clear that some of the people who have been in WoD raiding from the beginning are getting burnt out and looking for alternatives. I understand that the leadership team is likely in that group. However, that doesn't mean everyone on the raid team is tired of the content or their role. I think putting pressure on people to change how they're playing because other people are burnt out and need a change would be counterproductive.

I've only been back to raiding since January and am still having fun as a frost mage. (And if anyone tries to make me play fire, I'm sheeping them - you want a fire mage, Taenova rocks!) However, I was thinking about a role change for Legion raiding and am quite willing to play with the idea of different roles early. But I don't think anyone should be pressured to change if they're happy with what they're doing now. Especially if they are just starting or getting back to raiding.

I've got a Resto Shaman currently 706 equipped with a weaker damage off-spec. I've also got a blood/frost DK that is getting close to raid ready. I'd enjoy healing or tanking (when the DK is ready) alt runs. I've been staying on Tynkir for them because (1) I noticed people were getting burnt out on their mains and I'm not, (2) there have always been plenty of healers when I've offered to heal, and (3) she's my most effective toon at this time.

One thing I'm concerned about is what this change will do for the moose runs. I'd really like to see more guildies get the Grove Warden mount. I believe we still have few that are hoping to participate in a Heroic Archi kill.

The current plan, to my knowledge, was to not change the moose runs, given that all the proper players are online. I certainly understand that forcing something that isn't wanted is as productive as herding cats. You can't please everyone all of the time, but I do feel strongly that less stringent regulation of what character you are allowed to bring, specifically until Legion, will make the overall experience more fun for all involved. I realize my word choice was more stringent on "forcing" and "enforcing" change but really I just wanted the discussion to come up so that if and when we decide to do any of the proposed changes we can have as much input as possible.


I certainly have bias, as I am a player that "benefits" highly from a change in policy such as this because of the numerous alt characters I own that can go in to Normal, frankly Heroic, HFC. I would like to point out that, despite this, I have both consistantly been at the raid since we started HFC (really this entire last year) first on my now alt Pally Dharak, and then on my main Dhimsum and, with a few breaks and exceptions here and there, never questioned or fought when Cata or Mokio would ask me to not be on my alt for our farmed content. At least I didn't fight very hard.

In short progression of any kind at this point , especially with the announcement of Legion coming in August, won't stick around for a whole lot longer and our fairly strict regulation of which character you bring I don't personally feel is all that important anymore. This is a shared opinion amongst other raid members and leaders but certainly not all of the players absolutely have to change.

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I would also like to point out that Cross Realm Characters should be eligible so long as they meet the requirements. I know for a fact that I am not the only person who has max level characters on another server and even without Legion on the way I have never liked how strict we are about this topic despite it being almost no different than the character being present on Proudmoore. There's a little more work involved inviting said player but overall that shouldn't hinder it's acceptance so long as they have a character in the guild too.

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I don't think we would ever make anyone change that didn't want to. In addition, we have a lot of new raiders that still need gear. But for those, myself included, who have been on their mains during alt runs to help them go a little smoother and can't get too much else out of our current runs, a toon change would be nice. And this late in the expansion, I also agree with Dhaxis on the alts on other servers. Shouldn't matter. And the intent is not to stop moose runs. Moose runs will continue. I would love to get a moose for EVERYONE that wants one.

If you're not burnt out, don't switch. ALWAYS play what you most enjoy. YOU are paying a subscription for the game, and your fun level is of the utmost importance.

I do want to point out that not everybody has a geared enough alt to immediately start out in heroics. No matter that it is easier these days to get it there. But when you do get it there, realize that you then have the opportunity to switch it up every now and then.

This will also bring back more mythic dungeon runs. They've kind of dwindled off since many of us have all of our stuff upgraded and/or may be valor capped on our mains.

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