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Theorycrafting Corner

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Xafir
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Joined: Tue Jul 01, 2014 10:29 am

Theorycrafting Corner

Post by Xafir » Fri Jun 15, 2018 7:18 pm

Alright so I started theory crafting and doing in depth DPS measurements (manual ones because no parser boo). I will keep the thread up to date with what I find for different classes. Feel free to add your own findings as well!

So lets start off with ranger. Here is a bunch of math....along with my summary...you have been warned. All testing below was done at 45 with a full 37 blue set and a +10 45 bow. None of the skills had sapphires spent on them and I did not use any non chain skills.

marksman 1YY = 224 + 317 + 358+ 346 + 201 + 192 + 181 + 205 + 203 + 414 + 178 + 202 + 223 = 3244/4 = 811 DPS
marksman 2RR = 766 + 1747 + 811 = 3324/3 = 1108 DPS
marksman 2TT = 904 + 398 + 2693 = 3995/5 = 799 DPS
marksman 3TT = 142 + 328 + 1050 = 1520/2 = 760 DPS
switch effect if maxed out would be a damage increase of 460 on our 2TT in snipe below

snipe 1RR = 2238 + 893 + 2907 = 6038/5 = 1207.6 DPS
snipe 2TT = 1920 + 319 + 5441 = 7680/5 = 1536 DPS
snipe 3RR = 60 + 344 + 573 + 57 + 52 + 568 + 1194 + 1163 + 444 + 446 + 561 + 595 + 52 = 6109/4.5 = 1357.5 DPS

rapid 2RR = 335 + 539 + 1932 = 2806 (the other abilities in this stance were so bad I didn't bother putting them here)

focused 1RR = 1108 + 694 + 476 + 561 + 533 + 564 + 497 + 479 + 523 = 5435/5 = 1087 DPS
focused 1YY = 562 + 991 + 727 = 2280/3 = 760 DPS
focused 2TT = 2286 + 425 + 1681 = 4392/5 = 878.4 DPS
focused 3YY = 822 + 1664 = 2486/2.50 = 994.4
focused switch effect wedge 317 DPS (3 ticks for 317)
bonus crit on switch wasted if you switch to snipe and do 2RR because of auto crit
wedge effect only triggers on crit so sometimes you see 0 benefit
if you don't skill into the increased concentration on switch it becomes very hard to use with snipe stance

Overall I think the best PVE combo is marksman + snipe using a combination of marksman 2RR + 1YY and snipe 2TT + 3RR.
For PVP it really depends what you are going for. You can pick people off with really high damage snipes using marksman + snipe, but if someone gets on you then your instant cast options arent as great,
or you can go marksman + focused and have the strongest DPS while moving with a backwards jump to help you kite, but you lose the big burst of a good auto crit snipe

For which non stance skills to use....they are all kind of quirky to use. You should take smoke bomb with party enhancement for sure since it is a big boost to your party's damage, dodge roll is also required to I frame certain boss mechanics and it is really good for removing CC in PVP. Steady concentration with the fighting power buff is really strong to use on a marksman 2RR when starting a chain in marksman so you likely want that for your 3rd slot.

For the last slot it really depends on what you are looking for:
  • barrage with barrier II is useful for cheesing mechanics in PVE or getting some breathing room in PVP, but has a long cooldown
  • Nerve wreck with nerve disturbance is a good possibility for PVP since it increases your damage and increases the stun duration to 3 seconds if you are being hit
  • High angle fire stance snares you, but gives a flat always on damage boost depending on your range from the target. You can skill it to also increase the damage of people within 5m of you, but that causes you to take 20% more damage

Xafir
Member 4 years
Member 4 years
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Joined: Tue Jul 01, 2014 10:29 am

Re: Theorycrafting Corner

Post by Xafir » Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:40 pm

It is zerker time!

All tests were done at 45 with green gear and a 45 unupgraded blue weapon and no points spent and no non chain skills used (no beryls spent either)

rampage

1RR = 518 + 416 + 1100 = 2034/2.5 = 813 DPS
1TT = 518 + 352 + 1082 = 1952/2.5 = 780 DPS
1YY = 518 + 323 + 3659 = 4500/4.7 = 957 DPS

2RR = 915 + 416 + 1511 = 2842/3.5 = 812 DPS
2TT = 915 + 1529 = 2444/3.2 = 763 DPS
2YY = 915 + 265 + 396 + 410 + 1767 = 3753/4.5 = 834 DPS (test dot duration)

3RR = 1164 + 286 + 837 = 2287/2.2 = 1039 DPS
3TT = 1164 + 439 + 1001 = 2604/2.2 = 1183 DPS
3YY = 1164 + 530 + 536 + 528 = 2758/2.5 = 1103 DPS (this is actually quite interesting as the 2nd ability in the chain can nearly guarantee 1 crit when talented so it actually does more DPS in a real world scenario)

slaughter

1RR = 747 + 341 + 1270 = 2358/2 = 1179 DPS
1TT = 747 + 345 + 2051 = 3143/2 = 1571 DPS
1YY = 747 + 317 + 1798 = 2862/4 = 715 DPS

2RR = 2357 + 284 + 1210 = 3851/4.5 = 855 DPS
2TT = 2357 + 279 + 1853 = 4489/6 = 748 DPS
2YY = 2357 + 269 + 1397 = 4023/4.5 = 894 DPS

3RR = 536 + 406 + 903 = 1845/2.2 = 838 DPS
3TT = 536 + 475 + 1123 = 2134/2.2 = 970 DPS
3YY = 536 + 479 + 542 = 1557/2.2 = 707 DPS

anger

1RR = 374 + 275 + 419 + 422 + 420 = 1910/2 = 955 DPS
1TT = 374 + 356 + 1068 = 1798/2 = 899 DPS
1YY = 374 + 280 + 3421 = 4075/4 = 1018 DPS

2RR = 324 + 266 + 876 = 1466/2 = 733 DPS
2TT = 324 + 380 + 1925 = 2629/3.5 = 751 DPS
2YY = 234 + 296 + 1132 = 1662/2.2 = 755 DPS

3RR = 511 + 1060 = 1571/2 = 785 DPS
3TT = 257 + 1377 = 1634/2 = 817 DPS
3YY = 445 + 1538 = 1983/2 = 991 DPS

gale

1RR = 186 + 298 + 1592 = 2076/2.2 = 943 DPS
1TT = 186 + 280 + 879 = 1345/2 = 672 DPS
1YY = 186 + 473 + 1514 = 2173/2.2 = 987 DPS

2RR = 1300 + 283 + 397 = 1980/4 = 495
2TT = 1300 + 298 + 1818 = 3416/5.5 = 621 DPS
2YY = 1300 + 296 + 387 + 1754 = 3737/5.5 = 679 DPS (test bleed duration)

3RR = 145 + 156 + 129 + 454 + 392 + 451 + 495 = 2222/3 = 740 DPS
3TT = 145 + 156 + 129 + 172 + 182 + 167 + 498 + 483 + 415 = 2347/4 = 586 DPS
3YY = 145 + 156 + 129 + 277 + 1404 = 2111/2.5 = 844 DPS

Now lets use this to math out some rotations. Below are the combos we are going to use for each stance and how we will combine them into full 6 chain rotations:

rampage

1 combo

1YY = 518 + 323 + 3659 = 4500/4.7 = 957 DPS

2 combos

1RR = 518 + 416 + 1100 = 2034/2.5 = 813 DPS
3TT = 1164 + 439 + 1001 = 2604/2.2 = 1183 DPS

Anger

1 combo

1YY = 374 + 280 + 3421 = 4075/4 = 1018 DPS

2 combos

1RR = 374 + 275 + 419 + 422 + 420 = 1910/2 = 955 DPS
3YY = 445 + 1538 = 1983/2 = 991 DPS

slaughter

1 combo

2YY = 2357 + 269 + 1397 = 4023/4.5 = 894 DPS

2 combos

1TT = 747 + 345 + 2051 = 3143/2 = 1571 DPS
3TT = 536 + 475 + 1123 = 2134/2.2 = 970 DPS

rampage and anger kill yourself (0 heals)

1 combo

4500 + 4075 = 8575/8.7 = 985 DPS

2 combo

2034 + 2604 + 1910 + 1983 = 8531/8.7 = 980

rampage and anger don't kill yourself

2 combo (decapitate + highest DPS with lowest cast time)

4500 + 2604 + 4075 + 1983 = 13162/12.9 = 1020 DPS

rampage into slaughter

1 combo

4500 + 4023 = 8523/9.2 = 926

2 combo

2034 + 2604 + 3143 + 2134 = 9915/8.9 = 1114

anger into slaughter

2 combo

4075 + 1983 + 3143 + 2134 = 11335/10.2 = 1111 DPS

What we can see here is without applying any stance bonuses the strongest DPS combo is rampage and slaughter (barely). That being said the stance bonuses for anger and rampage are quite good. Fully skilled rampage is 50% FP buff + 30% defence down for 5 seconds on swap and anger is 9% crit rate on switch.

Comparing these 2 bonuses is a bit difficult but we will give it a try with rampage and anger decaps. We know that at a 200% crit bonus 9% crit (at least below 50%) is worth 4500 *0.09 or 405 damage while if we assume FP is a 50% straight bonus (as it looks to be on this particular chain in game) then our 400 FP at a 50% bonus will net us roughly 100 bonus damage. Both of these will scale up with gear and as we get more crit and approach the 50% sweet spot crit will begin to lose value.

At current gear levels the bonus from anger is better than the bonus from rampage (with the added bonus of no defense down). For absolute highest DPS you would use the 1 combo decapitate back to back as it results in a 50% uptime on both the rampage and anger buffs, but you cannot be healed ever when using this combo. The next highest would be the rampage + anger 2 combo, this will allow you 2 seconds on each swap to be healed. The final option is anger and slaughter for a high DPS build that can be healed for 50% of time and you actually heal yourself while doing the swap out of slaughter, this option is the safe option for sure.

Seeing as how slaughter is currently bugged for its switch effect the current recommended PVE build is rampage/anger (sorry healers) and PVP is slaughter/rampage.

Non stance skills....well you need dodge roll (don't put any talents in it the CD increase wrecks it and you straight up need fighting spirit if you want to use any non stance skills without breaking a combo.... From there the rest kind of suck except forstall for PVP. Malevolence could be good if they fix the fact that it only has a 1 second duration on the debuff it applies (if that). Fighters will could be good if you can guarantee you won't get hit while it is up and and game changer is really good for mass AOE.
Last edited by Xafir on Tue Jun 26, 2018 7:44 am, edited 6 times in total.

Xafir
Member 4 years
Member 4 years
Posts: 394
Joined: Tue Jul 01, 2014 10:29 am

Re: Theorycrafting Corner

Post by Xafir » Sat Jun 16, 2018 10:42 am

Time for a magic show!

The following tests were done at level 45 with a +10 45 weapon 3 pieces of 45 green vendor gear and the rest un upgraded lvl 37 dungeon gear. fire 2TT and mixed 1RR had max sapphires spent in both the lines (points were spent to decrease cast time or cooldown) and no non stance skills were used.

fire 1TT = 160 + 938 + 700 = 1798/4.5 = 400 DPS
fire 1YY = 160 + 816 + 725 = 1701/2 = 850 DPS

fire 2RR = 118 + 262 + 121 + 108 + 309 + 102 = 1020/5 = 204 DPS
fire 2TT = 275 + 113 + 842 + 235 + 113 + 2826 = 4404/5 = 880 DPS
fire 2YY = 111 + 257 + 107 + 623 + 524 + 239 + 106 = 1967/3 = 655 DPS

fire 3RR = 279 + 853 + 1873 + 790 = 3795/5 = 759 DPS
fire 3TT = 287 + 205 + 769 = 1261/2 = 630 DPS
fire 3YY = 285 + 250 + 1281 + 358 + 382 + 331 + 357 = 3244/4 811 DPS

mixed 1RR = 323 + 314 + 839 + 2839 = 4315/6 = 719 DPS
mixed 1TT = 315 + 351 + 774 + 672 = 2112/5 = 422 DPS
mixed 1YY = 323 + 314 + 735 + 1294 = 2666/5.5 = 485 DPS

mixed 2RR = 873 + 694 = 1567/2 = 783 DPS
mixed 2TT = 527 + 1455 = 1982/2 = 991 DPS
mixed 2YY = 698 + 1091 = 1789/2 = 894 DPS

mixed 3RR = 264 + 659 + 1438 + 337 + 327 + 335 = 3360/5 = 672 DPS
mixed 3TT = 264 + 194 + 1726 = 2184/4 = 546 DPS

cold 1TT = 150 + 812 + 1003 = 1965/4 = 491 DPS
cold 1YY = 150 + 520 + 675 = 1345/2 = 672 DPS

cold 2RR = 603 + 201 + 1894 = 2698/3.5 = 771 DPS
cold 2TT = 603 + 523 + 91 + 100 + 99 + 101 + 96 + 95 + 102 + 100 = 1910/3 = 636 DPS
cold 2YY = 603 + 749 + 608 = 1960/3.5 = 560 DPS

cold 3RR = 253 + 649 + 1700 = 2602/2.5 = 1041 DPS
cold 3TT = 253 + 526 + 856 = 1635/2.5 = 654 DPS

air 1TT = 156 + 882 + 1077 = 2115/5 = 423 DPS
air 1YY = 156 + 231 + 971 = 1358/3 = 452 DPS

air 2RR = 462 + 187 + 1274 = 1923/3 = 641 DPS
air 2TT = 462 + 844 + 1102 = 2408/4 = 602 DPS
air 2YY = 462 + (actually hitting something with the 2nd ability in this chain is stupidly hard)

air 3RR = whole chain takes 10 seconds to finish.....pretty garbage considering the channel does 303 damage a tick

alright much math was had....we actually have some rather surprising results. The long cast times of mage result in relatively low single target damage overall.
Cold and mixed surprisingly have the higher DPS abilities than fire mostly due to frigid spear and how much damage it does while being instant.
This does mean that we have options to choose from though. If we want to go with a big boom build with a decent balance between single target and AOE then choose fire and mixed, just keep in mind you will have long cast times on your big finishers. if you want to use a build with pure instant casts then give fire + ice a try (just keep in mind you will need to manage your mana using the enhancements for the 1 in both of these stances since no more 23% max mana from mixed switch effect). Cold and mixed can also work and do decent damage, but losing the switch effect from the fire stance really lowers your DPS potential.

For non stance skills blink with mana regen is a must on every build as is disenchant with the ability power buff. For the last 2 slots it really depends on what you are doing:
  • If you are doing PVP or soloing elemental armor is really good for the damage mitigation as well as the stun
  • Counterspell is really good against mages and healers in PVP as well as being required for certain dungeon bosses
  • Sleep is useful to troll people in OW PVP and can be useful in organized PVP if you can get people to not break a sleep on healer while you murder the rest of their team
  • Manashield seems great on paper, but in reality you generally just end up out of mana and unable to cast anything but magic shot. Even when talented into the reduce mana consumption it still drains your mana crazy fast. Really only useful in 1V1s vs certain classes
  • distortion talented with enhancement 3 is super useful in dungeons not just for dropping hate, but for ignoring boss mechanics. The use for this in PVP is fairly niche since you can't attack while it is up
  • Element discharge is only really useful if you talent it to fire which makes it useless for a mixed/ice build and even then it is kind of lackluster compared to some other abilities. It is a DPS increase for PVE burn fights, but kinda meh.

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Epicfell
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Re: Theorycrafting Corner

Post by Epicfell » Thu Jun 21, 2018 1:22 pm

Xafir wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 7:18 pm

So lets start off with ranger. Here is a bunch of math....along with my summary...you have been warned. All testing below was done at 45 with a full 37 blue set and a +10 45 bow. None of the skills had sapphires spent on them and I did not use any non chain skills.
Did you use Beryl's? If so, which ones?

Xafir
Member 4 years
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Posts: 394
Joined: Tue Jul 01, 2014 10:29 am

Re: Theorycrafting Corner

Post by Xafir » Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:08 pm

I did have beryls since it was before I respeced. Top left was up to physical def, top right up to hit, bottom left up to reduced damage and bottom right down to fighting power.

Xafir
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Re: Theorycrafting Corner

Post by Xafir » Mon Jun 25, 2018 9:56 pm

Updated zerker numbers to values valid for patch 1.2.0.1

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